One thing I have noticed about most Pagan folks is that they tend to have a pretty rational mind and usually will challenge common cultural perceptions and assumptions though reason and logic. But at the same time our "spiritual paths" tend to seem very irrational, especially to other non-Pagans.
I personally have frustrated many people by being a fierce defender of evolution for example, and yet my spiritual beliefs seem almost fairy-tale like and very "unscientific" .
Have any of you run into this? If so how do you deal with the seemingly contradictory idealisms?
I personally have frustrated many people by being a fierce defender of evolution for example, and yet my spiritual beliefs seem almost fairy-tale like and very "unscientific" .
Have any of you run into this? If so how do you deal with the seemingly contradictory idealisms?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: How do you balance faith and reason?
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 10:40 AMOur modern western worldview is besotted with rationality, with what can be quantified and qualified by very narrow precepts. Science is often embraced as if it were a form of religion, but science doesn't really have all the answers. It can't, since it only allows so much to be "permissible" at any given time ("It's a particle!" "No, it's a wave!" "Wait, it's both!?!"). Although science does have the ability to change and update when new data batters down the door, scientists don't like change any more than any other human, so there is often a large between what is known and when it is "proven" by science.
Unfortunately for the scientific worldview, we are not merely rational beings - bio-machines that bleed, constantly at the mercy of our brain chemicals - but numinous multidimensional entities. I like to ask proponents of a scientistitc worldview how they "explain" art, or emotion, or relationships in a purely "rational" sense.
It has been said that one of the signs of a mature and balanced mind is the ability to balance several different ideas at the same time. Many of us who are Pagans find ourselves in the position of generally juggling an assortment of often oppositional worldviews simultaneously, so that must mean we're balanced and mature!
As Pagans we get to access the best of both (and actually ALL) worlds. -
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Re: How do you balance faith and reason?
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 2:26 PM"Science is often embraced as if it were a form of religion, but science doesn't really have all the answers"
I agree with this to a point. I think that is in religion, people have faith in science, but the faith that most have in science is not the same type of faith people have in religion. By the very definition of religious faith "belief that is not based on proof". Those who believe in science demand proof to bolster their positions. This is a huge and fundamental difference. Any religion requires a certain amount of "religious faith" where as those who hold to science do not place their faith in things that can't be quantified or analyzed though rational thought and process. On other words they are the "show me" people. I like to give this example.
Billy is holding a small stone out at arms length. When he opens his hand what will happen? Most people will say, the stone will fall to the ground. We say this because observation and logic has taught us that that physics work. In other words, we have "faith" in it .
Now lets assume that when Billy dropped the rock it hit a snail on the ground and killed it. Billy laughs at the poor snails demise and brags about it to his mum. His mother however scolds Billy for killing something unnecessarily because its wrong. When Billy asks why its wrong his mother says because "God/Goddess says killing is wrong." With that information Billy sobers up and apologizes and feels bad for the rest of the day. Why does Billy feel bad? It's not the actual act of killing in itself that saddens him, it's the belief that he has let down his "Goddess/God". He has no proof of this, but he has faith in his "faith". It is not observable or quantifiable but to Billy it is a s real as the stone that started this whole mess.
That is the difference between science and religion. I like to say to people, there is a huge difference between truth and fact (religion and science). So as I agree that some people follow science "religiously" its not the same thing as "faith" in religion.
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Re: How do you balance faith and reason?
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 6:08 PMI find that sometimes I'm just unbalanced, but I'm okay with that.
I believe in a form of intelligent design AND evolution. On one hand I offer worship to deities, elemental forces, worthy ancestors, I believe in spirits of place and actions, but I also understand that these spiritual entities are basically thought-forms that people have given shape over millenia because humans have this deep need for Mystery. I believe in (and am plagued by) ghosts but I'm a die-hard reincarnationist. I'm pantheist, animist, an aspiring Buddhist and deeply Pagan, but I believe that the western-JudeoChristian 'God' exists also - but just because this Middle Eastern patriarchal monotheistic cult worships this God doesn't mean I have to. I understand (vaguely - math & science are not my strong points) the premise behind lightning - but I call those scientific laws and theories Thor or Chango. I know how to make fire, but only by the grace of Prometheus (or some other Trickster) stealing it in the first place. I know the sun will rise again in the morning & Spring follows Winter, but a part of me still worries...
I don't feel it necessary to justify or rationalize my beliefs or my acceptance of long-standing scientific theories. I also have a pretty good bullshit filter - I don't believe EVERYTHING that crosses the radar- scientific or spiritual. I'm still having a struggle with Scientology...
